Matthew Mitchell: This is Matthew Mitchell from the CTE and today, I'm with Guanzi Shen. I am going to talk to her about working with Chinese students at USF. Guanzi, before we get started, because a lot of people may not know who you are, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what's your position at USF and what kind of responsibilities that job entails, and whatever else you want to tell us about yourself?
Guanzi Shen: Thank you, Matthew. You give me this opportunity to introduce myself and also is a really big pleasure to meet with you and talk about how to support Chinese student. My name is Guanzi Shen and I am a dynamic success coach in CASA, Center for Academic and Student Achievement. We're located in UC, 3rd Floor and our center basically is a really good resource for student and we provide academic and also personal support for students and we promote holistic development of students.
Also, as Director of International Student Advising Support, I also work predominantly with international student. We try to build a team and help them have a better transition to USF and also help them solve other issues they probably encounter at the time they stayed in USF. Also, we have good connection with other offices and also faculty members so we can detect the issue, what's going on, and then we can work as a team to support student and help them be successful at USF. Thank you.
Matthew: Fantastic. Thank you. Well, where I want to start off is that USF has seen a pretty dramatic increase in students from China over the past three to four years. I'm wondering if there's any general-- I know this is hard, but I'm wondering if there's any general advice you'd give to faculty about how to best work with Chinese students. At the same time, I realize it's just like here, not all Americans are the same, not all Chinese are the same, but it would still be useful if there were some kind of general considerations for faculty to keep in mind.
Guanzi: I want to give you a little bit background about Chinese education, also the trends recently. In my generation, student normally came over to US for grad school because that's like they had the foundation undergrad in China and then they came here for research or no further education, but in the recent five years is a trend. Students start coming over for undergrad education. I think the reason why is the economic growth is really fast in China.
Also, in China, people start really appreciate American education for the academic freedom and also the [unintelligible 00:02:59] one support and also, it's the best, the richest country and also, it's very prestigious in many academic subject areas. Student come here with a very high expectation. They want to come here and experience totally different academic culture. Since they come here, they always are attending college in China. They just come here directly from high school. It's going to be a totally different experiences. Normally, apart from culture shock, they also going to have academic culture shock.
In China, we call it call spoon-feeding education. Student just sit there and then teacher would talk. They would talk.
Matthew: We call it the same thing here. [laughs]
Guanzi: Yes? The same thing here. Then they just take notes and then they memorize everything and that would going to happen in the exam because they just write down what they learn and what they memorize. Here, we expect student to participate in class and we want them thinking critically and also give feedback. That's kind of like a mismatch of expectation. Students are, "Oh, come here, just sit in class and listen and finish assignments, I'm done." It's not really like that. Also, in China, especially in high school, student tend to finish everything by themself individually.
They don't have a lot of group work, group projects, and that's why when they came here and then sometimes, they have group work and group discussion. They feel totally like no clue and they know what's going on, they know what they need to present, especially something in our classes, but it's very hard for them to pitch in this culture and put their efforts in because they kind of feel lost. They don't know what's going on. Also, professors in China, professors like someone really high up there is like a symbol of-
Matthew: Wait, wait, wait. It's the same here.
Guanzi: -oh, well, yes, but [laughs]-
Matthew: It's the same here.
Guanzi: -I think it's more like there's a symbol of prestige and it's very high up there. Not very approachable and kind of scary sometime and also, student have scared of asking questions and kind of made them look stupid. Sometime, they think, "Oh, I don't want to look stupid," or, "I'm not sure it's going to be helpful, are they're going to help you?" Those is kind of myth going on there so student kind of scared, kind of scared to talk to professors. Here, professor really wants student to engage and they want to know their feedback and they expect student have their input. All this thing-
Matthew: [unintelligible 00:05:54]. 
Guanzi: -yes, exactly. [laughs] All these things-- They came here and if you're lost and also they don't know what's going on, that's why I think it's very good for also for faculty member, try to talk to them and also work with CASA and then we can help student also from student side. We can educate them and coaching them. If they come to talk to professor and then find help, then you will have better education experience here. That's just the background thing and also, some people say, "Oh, I'm not sure if my student understand me because he or she just have a blank face." Sometimes, they actually understand. They just don't have this culture to give feedback.
They understand what it's talking about, but you feel there's no input. This is why it's always good to ask a little bit or maybe have a one-on-one meeting with them. Then you know, "Okay, so that's the issue and I actually understand, but maybe you just didn't show us that you understand."
Matthew: Fantastic. Thank you so much. For most faculty, there's a lot of things that they do without even thinking about it just to make their students feel more welcome and at home in the classroom. A lot of times, we actually don't even think about it but for instance, most faculty know the names of all their students except in really large classes and often, they're going to greet them in some way when they enter the room. I'm wondering, along a similar vein, are there any small but important ways that faculty can make Chinese students feel more welcome?
Based on what you were saying, maybe it's kind of strange to say hello to them when they enter. What kind of things would make them feel more comfortable in the classroom even before the class begins? Does that make sense?
Guanzi: Yes. We also encourage students to say hi to professor when they step into the classroom. I think it's very good to have this both way communication and also, it's actually not easy. It's delicate because some student, the Chinese student didn't want to feel like they were picked on. They want to be treated as other students but some student, they do need extra attention because they're very shy. They're kind of closed up. It's not easy for them to open up.
Also, I think for faculty members, sometime, it's hard to read their body language and hard to read their facial expression because this can be a cultural differences. I will say I think most faculty members, they really try to-- Because we talk about this with other faculty members and they're really helpful, I think in class, maybe encourage them to meet with faculty one-on-one. If you find out there's maybe miscommunication or not sure if students understand everything because from student side, it's hard for them to make the first move.
It's like we need to push them. When they come to CASA, I say, "Give a try, professors not scary. Go talk to them, introduce yourself." As long as they make the first, step in the future, they will feel comfortable. It's like the first step. I think it's just more encouraging and then let them know they will get help because some student will think, "I feel lost. I'm not sure who should I talk to." Sometimes, they come to CASA but also in classroom, professor meet them and all the time and during the week. It's very good to let them know it's a very friendly place and the student are always welcome to come to talk to them.
Matthew: This is really the second time that you've mentioned getting together with students one-on-one. It seems- and I've actually heard that one or two other places before. I know some faculty do that, but I think a lot of faculty overall don't do that. Maybe that's something we need to pay special attention to, especially when working with Chinese students. If I'm hearing you right, part of the effectiveness of that is really the professor taking the first step and also, when it's one-on-one, it's a little less threatening.
What other kinds of things would be useful? If I was setting up a one-on-one meeting with some freshmen Chinese students, besides just kind of talking to them about the class, what kinds of things might I do in that short 15 to 30-minute meeting that would be especially helpful for them based on your experiences?
Guanzi: It's also very interesting topic for one-on-one because in China, normally, student will think, "Of my professor stay away from me, everything's good." If you're called to see professor, something really bad happening. It's very interesting but here, it's always good to set the tone because a lot of faculty members I heard, they actually say, "Feel free to come to my office hour." When they set the tone, a student know it's not like you only see professor when you're in big trouble. That's really good saying to let students know.
Also, I know it's little bit hard to break the ice in the beginning. For me and also other CASA academic theses coaches, we always start with the weather and the food and, "Do you like San Francisco?" Then they start feeling like- start warming up, and then they can always talk to classes and academic and performance, everything like this. I would say because I have some students, sometime, I feel a little bit distant.
I feel like the student really close that they don't want to share information but it's fine because sometime, they're going through a lot of-- Like you said, a freshman, they came here, they probably going through homesickness, they need to adjust themself, not only academically, also physically, emotionally. There's lots of things going on so they need they need time. Also, a faculty member, if you're figuring out, you don't really have the clue. They'll come to, "Just call me or contact me so we can work together with students." Sometime, they just need these little bit of effort and time to let them open up. I will say most student I met, they have a rough first year but then after that, they really perform amazingly.
Matthew: Fantastic. When we put this interview up, of course, we're going to have to put your phone number there too so if you look, everybody can call Guanzi. This is something else that you also mentioned earlier. In a lot of classrooms, faculty use small group work and you mentioned that typically, Chinese students aren't used to that. I'm wondering if there are any particular considerations or strategies for helping Chinese students work more effectively in small groups, especially since they're not used to it. What kind of extra considerations should a faculty member give to it?
Guanzi: I think for group work, first, when faculty members assign student into different groups, I will say if you let student form group by themself, normally, you will see the classroom, like student from China will be together, student from other country will be together, and American student will be in one group. It's always either you random pick or let them to form groups or if professor already know students, probably like after midterm, they're already familiar with the group and the dynamic, professor can pick student and form a group because you can see if they can work well.
Maybe a student very friendly and very easy communication, very easygoing and they can maybe with a couple of Chinese student, and then they can form a group and they encourage them work together. Also, it's always good to have a very clear guideline for students and expectations because sometime, I work with several faculty members about group work and some issues going on with Chinese students. Sometime, because they never had group work before, they're just a little bit passive, just sit there and wait for other group member to assign them the work they need to do.
Sometime, it's not really evenly workload and then when they present everything, they'll say, "Oh, you didn't really do a lot. Why? Why this happened?" It's always a little bit more clear to say about the guideline, the group work, and also encourage student to communicate with the professor if anything going on in the group. Some student maybe feel there's some miscommunication, especially when student have group work, say, "Hard to find time to me," there's lot of things can happen in a group work.
I think most time, as long as student can form a group with different dynamics, different participation level and trying out participation level, it's like a different kind of input, and then have evenly workload, normally they're fine. I just spoke to a student. She has a Chinese student in the group and she told me in the beginning, "I'm afraid that she won't take the initiative to do the group work. Then we try to encourage her and make her believe that, "You can do it, don't worry." Then eventually this girl did a fantastic presentation in the group work. Then a student, American student told me, "I was so surprised and now, we know that she can do it."
It's also the cultural way. We don't normally step up to present ourself. We always try to be quiet. Even now, sometime, when people ask feedback, normally, I'm not the first one to speak. I always try to observe and then put my input in. I think it's very interesting dynamics, but I think for faculty member, group work and group in-class activity's always good to integrate American student with Chinese students. It takes time to warm up, but I think eventually, you will get a really good dynamic in the classroom.
Matthew: You mentioned a couple of things. One is really probably the worst thing one could do if you're in a class is, if you have group work, is have just Chinese students in a group, so mixing them up so that makes a whole lot of sense. The other thing that you mentioned and you described quite nicely was this idea of having more explicit or clear expectations for the group work. Could you give me maybe one or two examples of what that might look like because I think for most faculty, they kind of assume students know.
Sometimes, when you just do something, you're not thinking consciously about what are the steps involved.
From your experience, what would you suggest is some of the most important ways that you can make group work more explicit to students?
Guanzi: I would say some Chinese student didn't know. I would say they don't really know that they need to take on the evenly workload. Sometime, they think, "Okay, this time, I'm doing a little bit less. Next time, I can do more." Also, sometime, in the presentation, even though they probably do research and paperwork but in the presentation, sometimes they're shy. "I don't want to stand there and present. Should I just do the paperwork and research, let another student present?"
Those are small things. As I say, sometime, for us and also people understand American culture, we think it's common sense, sometime, it's not really common sense for Chinese students because they probably never experience those form of academic activities. Also, I think encourage student to communicate, be more inclusive and communicate with student from different background is always a good way to form a better environment, a friendly environment in class in terms of doing group works, especially it's just for education and we want to encourage student and grow not only academically, also, we want them to have inclusive attitude and also appreciate diversity.
I think that's a very good way also for student to start understanding what is diversity and how to work with people from different background.
Matthew: That's a great point. One of the stories that I've heard over the past couple of years, I don't know how often this happens, but it happens sometimes, is that there will be a faculty member in a class where sometimes, over 50% of the students in the class are Chinese. One person described one of these classes where literally, one side of the room were Americans and the other side of the room were Chinese. They felt like in that situation, the faculty was almost like talking to two completely different audiences. That happens a bit here in some courses where there's a really heavy percentage of Chinese students.
In those cases, are there any particular strategies you would suggest so faculty can better integrate the class so it doesn't feel like it's two completely different kinds of students?
Guanzi: In that case, I always feel like more in-class activities will be better. You can just pick students and like, "Okay, let's do a group work," and you can mix them, and intentionally mix them. I know some student, they always want to sit there with their friend and they feel comfortable with it because for many students from Asian culture, when they've encountered some challenges, they tend to retreat back to their own tribe. It's like they can feel comfort there and they feel safe. I think if we'll start making this kind of dynamics and then mix them together intentionally and you see it's not scary, you can talk to other students and they're the same.
They're learning and they're not necessarily smarter than you. You're not [chuckles] smarter than them. When this dynamic start building, I believe in the classroom, student will integrate better a long semester. I believe that. I'm not really sure because sometime, it's case by case.
Matthew: It seems like the effective use of group work can be really helpful. I want to look at the opposite situation because sometimes, people have classes where the percentage of Chinese students is really small. It could be a class of 40 people and there's one or two Chinese students in there. Now, that's the opposite case. They're the oddballs in the class. Is there anything special faculty could do in that situation?
Guanzi: I think for that situation, I guess it's always better to maybe set up a one-on-one meeting with Chinese student and just ask them, "How's it going? Do you understand the lecture well?" I think many faculty members are really good at detect if there's anything going on and then if student understand the lecture well and how's the dynamic in the classroom. Personally, I've always feel like one-on-one meeting with students always very effective and also understand student more. Sometime, maybe there's misunderstanding, but after you talk with students, then they actually tend to open up more if they meet with professor in person.
Also, I always believe some student actually told me a conversation was professor can be life-changing. They just change their whole perspective and there is kind of break the myth of how professor like in a university. Sometime, it's just lovely to hear the story.
Matthew: Absolutely. This is kid of an odd question but most of the time, it's faculty. What we think about is what can we do inside the classroom to make things more effective for our learners? I'm wondering, you've mentioned one-on-one meetings which, from your description, I can see how that would be so important and so powerful. I'm wondering if there's any other strategies that faculty could use with Chinese students outside the classroom that might be helpful.
Guanzi: For outside classroom, we have a lot support and academic also personally. For example, many professors encourage student to meet with learning writing center and also meeting with TAs so they can get extra support. Also, in CASA, we can assist faculty member to support student and also, we can have a one-on-one meeting with student to coach them, how it's from student side, how to communicate with faculty member better. Also, sometimes, faculty cannot tell there's something going on with student. We have like CAPS and also SDS on campus can help student if they have special needs or they have something like for example, homesickness going on, they can always go to CAPS and find help.
I think many faculty members are aware of all this resources on campus and feel free to-- Student go to within different campus resources and also feel free to refer them to CASA and then we can talk to them. I think really, it's a matter of make them to be more aware of cultural differences. I believe everything would be fine. [chuckles]
Matthew: If everything is fine, then your job will go away.
Guanzi: Oh, [laughs] I love my job.
[laughter]
Matthew: Really, what I try to do, Guanzi, was ask you the best questions I knew how, but from your own experience and working with faculty and working with students, maybe there are some key issues or key things that I haven't asked you about but you know that are important. Are there any other things that you want to share that might be important for us as faculty to think about?
Guanzi: I think it's a transition because for American student, they trended to USI from high school and they have a certain kinds of issues going on. For Chinese student, on top of the issues already there and also for them come to a new country, small things can be stressful. Like go to a bank, go to get cell phone and even if they lose them, we need [unintelligible 00:26:14]. Small things can trigger anxiety. I think mixed student feel like they're always welcome to talk and also, you can refer student to CASA if you feel like something going on, you're not sure, and then we can help student to find the support.
Cultural background is always something we need to work on constantly and also is a case-by-case thing. From my experiences, actually many faculty members sometimes just call me and ask me the question about certain student's situation. Normally, if a student feel comfortable to talk to either faculty or staff on campus, they can always find help. That's also the part I love USF. I just feel like even people need help and they ask, they can always find a support. Also, from student's side, we try to coach student, "Always ask for help, don't think you're just alone there. There's actually people, there is a team to support you." I think it's also both way same.
Matthew: Guanzi, thank you so much for taking the time to sit down and talk through some of these issues. As we have more and more Chinese students come to USF, faculty are becoming increasingly aware and concerned that they do the best job they can for all students. I think you've provided us with some really nice insights about how to work with these students a little better than we have in the past. Thank you so much.
Guanzi: Thank you. Thank you for this opportunity. Thank you.
[00:27:57] [END OF AUDIO]


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